Comments for The anti-feminist politics behind the pornography that “empowers” women at http://atlanticfreepress.com , comment 1 to 8 out of 8 comments http://atlanticfreepress.com Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:33:16 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-5326 Sheldon states: "Jensen and Dines are strict followers of Andrea Dworkin. As such, they believe that any sexually explicit depiction of humans is inherently pro-patriarchal." This is a complete misrepresentation of Dworkin as well as Jensen and Dines. I challenge Sheldon to find me one quote from any of their work that says anything of the sort. - Steve Silver Tue, 17 Jun 2008 03:00:43 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4685 Why not invite the Abby Winters group to participate on a panel at either Wheelock College or UT Austin? (Pay the Abby Winters group the standard visiting artist lecture fee, along with a nice place to stay and a decent per diem... and how could they refuse?) A trade show is for trade. Trade = commerce and commerce= money, which means not a whole lot of time for feminist discourse. It's very expensive to transport a large group of people from Australia and put them up at the Venetian Hotel. The Abby Winters booth was much better than most of the booths at that show: A breath of fresh air actually. I'm sure the Abby Winters group could behave themselves at the university. If all else fails, the women could at least play chess in the campus coffee shop with the students. (fully clothed of course....) - vv Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:40:30 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4620 Look, the presence of sex-positive porn doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of the industry is based on the commodification of women for the sexual gratification of men - which only contributes to the culture of misogyny in the nation and throughout the world. This is a problem that needs to be addressed. As feminists, we should consider these implications, not deny there's a problem just because we might personally enjoy porn. I actually agree that gender-positive porn helps to undermine misogynistic porn, but to blissfully ignore all the problems associated with the latter just to lift up our gender-positive porn seems naive and rather like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand. - TR Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:48:22 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4562 So why aren't Jensen and Dines sigling out for praise porn that has a better gender dynamic? After all, Jensen has praised the Hollywood film "Syriana" as progressive even though a film like that is not typical of Hollywood. Jensen and Dines are strict followers of Andrea Dworkin. As such, they believe that any sexually explicit depiction of humans is inherently pro-patriarchal. - Sheldon Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:37:39 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4559 I disagree with Pro-Porn Feminist's conclusions, but at least s/he engaged the central point of the article: [i]"...Pornography, at its core, is a market transaction in which women’s bodies and sexuality are offered to male consumers in the interests of maximizing profit..."[/i] It's not the sex that's the problem, it's that even the more "holistic" sites like abbywinters.com capitalize on the objectification of women for the sexual purposes of men - which in turn contribute to the really fucked-up way in which gender and power interact in the world. It's a problem that I believe is also bad for men, in that it screws up their perceptions of gender and enables their continued oppression of women generally. While it's great and essential that more women are becoming sex-positive, I don't agree that the way to do it is for women to embrace present-day porn, with its present state of fucked-up gender dynamics. I would argue that porn that truly reflects sex-positive and gender-equal dynamics is certainly available - but in no way makes an impact on the direction of the market at large. Instead, the predominant impact of the greater porno market, as Jensen and Dines argue, has negative social consequences. - TR Tue, 26 Feb 2008 06:53:29 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4487 a woman's face as a male expression of hatred and degradation, but I experience ejaculation on my face as a raw expression of two beautiful things together: My face, and the result of my partner's passion. I guess it all depends on one's relationship with sex, eh? After having the sexuality shamed, persecuted, stoned, and arrested out of us, is it any wonder that men are the majority consumers of porn? Men get no redirection for their natural sexual urges, while women are constantly reprimanded for their choices to be sexual. It is a beautiful miracle that there is a revolution of women now demanding the right to not only access and consume sexuality in venues such as pornography, escorts, and strip clubs, but to be unapologetically sexual themselves. This is my favorite part: "At the booth, Abbywinters.com “girls”... were chatting amiably with the fans (even playing chess with some of them, to show that the girls are smart as well as sexy)[.]" The statement is dripping with derision, and her disdain for the actresses is so blatant it hurts. Fine irony, wouldn't you say? Excellent point you make, Iamcuriousblue. The answer to that is that those who would question their rhetoric and discourse are not welcome at their events. Remember the anti-porn event at Wheelock. - Pro-Porn Feminist in LV Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:00:53 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4484 "Gail Dines, a sociology professor at Wheelock College in Boston,...Robert Jensen, a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin...." OK, let's try out this scenario for size. How about we have a well-known sex-positive/pro-porn/sex-worker-rights activist show up one day in the classroom of Gail Dines or Robert Jensen (ie, one of *their* workplaces) and start giving them the third-degree about the rather unsavory political connections (with the religious and cultural right) of the feminist anti-porn and prostitution abolitionist movement. I bet neither of them would dig that very much and would be pretty quick to call security. - Iamcuriousblue Tue, 12 Feb 2008 17:17:16 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/3305-the-anti-feminist-politics-behind-the-pornography-that-empowers-women.html#comment-4479 Let me get this right. This Jenson person shows up at a porn convention, singles out some young ladies who are unaware that he has already pre judged them, and then undoubtedly begins to badger these women until he gets the answers he wants. He then whines about being banned? The question begs to be asked. How much money is Jenson making off the porn industry with his books, lectures, etc.? - Megiddo Tell Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:52:08 +0100