Comments for No More Free Passes for Faith-based Campaigners at http://atlanticfreepress.com , comment 1 to 12 out of 12 comments http://atlanticfreepress.com Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:11:08 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1708 I just think that it is sad that the LDS church remains the only minority group that you still bash with bigoted remarks in this age of political correctness. Showing a picture of garments on the website is the equivelant of graphically depicting Muhamed in terms of it hurtfulness and insensitivity towards a particular religious group. The Author of this article is obviously blinded by bigotry, and it is really sad actually. Stephen Pizzo's religious intolerance actually managed to overshadow the logical errors of his piece. - a guest Tue, 20 Mar 2007 04:35:01 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1347 The LDS church started Utah. The headquarters is in SLC. What do you expect to find there but a large amount of LDS members? Anyway, you completely missed the point of what I have been saying. I don't mind that you, or anyone else, believes differently than me. What I mind is that articles like these, while trying to prove its point, disrespectfully degrade others views to get their own across. This article could have been written in a way that would have been non-offensive. No one in the church minds questions about the faith or its practices. What they do mind is when less-than-knowledgable people throw out their opinions of what the church believes or practices and then misrepresent it. This only leads to more misconceptions and sometimes falsehoods about what the church actually believes. It causes damage to members of that faith whether you want to admit it or not. Most misconceptions about our religion either comes from vocal opinions from people that do not know the full doctrine of the church, or from people who left the church, who never understood it. No one will understand the deeper doctrine and mysteries of God until they grasp the basic principles and foundations. This is why there is an Old Testament and a New Testament. So casting "pearls before swines" results them nothing. In summary, I encourage anyone who honestly wants to know what members of The Church of Latter-Day Saints believe, that they ask a member of the church or a representative. I discourage that they seek their knowledge of what the faith believes and practices, from people who do not understand it in the least and feel nothing is wrong with exploiting it or degrading it like we are all still in middle school. Because obviously their mind is already made up. Only people who earnestly seek the truths of God, will find them. I can promise you that the methods displayed here, will never educate anyone on what this candidate believes and how it wil affect his decisions in office. So you have done nothing but waste your time and the time of those that read it. Learn about the faith and its teachings and values straight from the source and only then do you have a chance at understanding how it affects how it affects its members actions and decisions. - a guest Thu, 22 Feb 2007 17:38:58 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1346 I am not going to argue with you. You believe what you believe... and of course.. that was the very point of my piece above. But you did say something in you latest post that needs a reply. You wrote: "You think an LDS president will turn democracy into a theocracy." Ah, yeah. I've spent considerable time in Utah... particular SLC..have relatives there. So don'try to convince me that the LDS chruch is some kind of benigh social force. The LDS church has turned Utah into about as close a theocratic state as I ever want to see in America. They don't call-em "Morbots" for nothing. - a guest Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:20:52 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1345 You're not sorry in the least. You care not who you offend, and that offends me more. Though you hold nothing sacred does not make it ok for you to violate what others may hold sacred. Like I said, if you want to understand why LDS wear the holy garment, then make an effort to learn about it, not exploit it. Believe it or not, the garment is not an LDS invention. The garment has its origin with Adam and Eve. Non-LDS biblical scholars acknowledge the importance of it all through Old and New Testament times. Not everyone takes the time to do that kind of research before they establish how "weird" it is to everyone that will listen to them. Like I said before, if you want to know why something is sacred to a set of people, research it respectfully. If you want to know why Muslims view the Koran as something so sacred, they go through an ordinance before picking it up, then ask, don't degrade. If you want to know why Christians view the Cross as a sacred symbol, then ask, don't tell everyone how stupid they must be for viewing some wood as that important. As an "author" you have certain responsibilities to your readers. You mock what you do not understand. I am not ashamed for people to know what garments look like. I made a covenant with God not to make light of sacred and holy things. Records show all through the Bible of what happens to those who mock Him. I totally get the point of your article. You think a President with "strange" beliefs will make America worse. You think an LDS president will turn democracy into a theocracy. Well, if you think our beliefs are strange, and you want to understand them, then make an effort to learn about them. Talk with a representative of the church and ask them the questions that you have. Find out the truth about what the beliefs are, directly from the source, and then make your own judgements of how you feel about it. Finding out information from biased sources that disagree with it, is like asking a firm communist to tell you the ins and outs of democracy. Do some real research BEFORE you post an article that shows how ignorant you are on the subject. - a guest Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:09:01 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1341 than Christians now hate Scientologists. John Stuart Mill, for example, thought it would be a good idea to send a military expedition to Utah and exterminate the LDS -- and he wrote about it in no uncertain terms. - a guest Thu, 22 Feb 2007 04:53:30 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1337 great idea!? let's have the media investigate and tell us which faith (and if any) is the most consistent with progressive views on modern government and appropriate for government officers. and then they can tell us how sincere is each candidate's belief in his or her faith so we voters will know if the candidate will act correctly. and later the media can investigate and tell us whether a president's action are based on inappropriate religious faith or on acceptible secular beliefs. or, beyond an attack on Bush and believing politicians -- can one infer that the indirect but real target here is religious faith itself, which the author implies is not just inconsistent with the progressive intellectual requirements of governing, but absurd in itself? - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:58:59 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1336 To the Mormon who has taken offense at showing holy underwear: My point is that some candidates believe in things voters might find more than a bit strange, if only they knew. Holy underwear -- that among other things some Mormons believe may even protect them from physical harm -- certainly qualifies as strange belief to hold.. maybe too strange for many voters to entrust the Oval Office to someone that holds such a belief. The same goes for many other religious beliefs... beliefs that, when fully aired can only leave some voters wondering if a candidate that believes such things isn't -- dare I say -- a bit touched in the head. Frankly after six years of just such a person in the White House I want to know the next time if a candidate I am about to vote for is in touch with reality. Sorry that showing the holy underwear offended you or any other Mormon, but it does beg the question... why if it's God's wishes that you wear them should you be ashamed of people knowing what they look like? Steve - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:39:25 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1335 I totally understand the purpose of this article. I have no problem with the purpose of the article. The problem I have is that no respect at all was given to members of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints when the temple garment is displayed for the public to see. I do not care what the topic of any article is, I will still take high offense to that action, as will other members of said church. I have no problem with people wanting to know about every single aspect of the church, I simply want them to do so respectfully. They are "undergarments" for a reason. They mean nothing to you, they mean a great deal to me. Do you see the disrespect I speak of yet? It is as offensive to me as it would be for a father to find his daughter has been "displayed" for the entire world to have access to. My argument is, showing this sacred part of our religion that in no way affects anyone else, was unnecessary, crude, and disrespectful. I for a fact know that Jews and some Hindus wear sacred undergarments as well, however I do not think it respectful to want to see them. I can promise you that every member of the church I know, and every teaching that I have received respects and expects seperation of church and state. I can guarantee that if for some wild chance Romney is elected, there would be no forcing of anyone to practice our religion. Our church is a very strong advocate for the power of choice that all humans have. No one is forced to enter the religion, and no one is forced to stay in it. As for your question of how WILL Americans gain their information. . . ? How old are you? Do you not remember the times before internet? If you want to know the truth about what the religion teaches and believes, seek local missionaries, read their teachings, attend a church meeting, ask a member you may have contact with. If you HAVE to use the internet, got to the official church website and dig around. There are contact numbers everywhere. There are also meetinghouse locators. You have to ask yourself, do you want a presidential debate, or a religious debate? Romney is not a leader of the church. He is not a representative of the church. If the media wants to know what Romney believes, why would they not question the leaders of the church? They would be more knowledgeable about any subject of the church than Romney would. They would get better answers because they understand all the history of the church, moreso than average members. As to your question of the afterlife. . . Like I said, we'll all have to just see when it happens. Me, personally, I would like to have tried to find out whatever I could, before it's too late. - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:18:14 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1333 A "guest" said: "So like I said, if you want to really know what Romney, or McCain believes, research it, don't attack it. Once you've researched it thoroughly and correctly (I do not mean dig up dirt and opinions on the internet), and if you do not agree with the faith and feel the candidate would not make correct choices because of his/her beliefs, then don't vote for them. Simple as that. Be an American if you so wish to be. Being an American means accepting your neighbors into this amazing, wonderful melting pot that gives this country its identity, without unnecessary judgements and ridicule. If you would rather attack others for their beliefs, then get out. . . America does not need citizens like this. Keep this country a free land based on the principles that our founding fathers established it under: that Americans will be free to worship however they choose. Vote using facts, not opinions." Perhaps you need to go back and read the article -again- since you obviously did not understand the author's intent. And it is not about the underwear. I believe Stephen Pizzo has done an accurate job researching his piece and I do not see him attacking anyone or any particular religion. Quite the opposite. Like so many others who refuse to comprehend the dangers of the religious right, you represent a particular culture which cannot seem to differentiate between the right to practice one's chosen religion privately and forcing that chosen religion onto others. The complete hypocrisy of people like McCain and Romney has been well documented by other progressive authors. If mainstream media refuses to question potential candidates as the author points out- then how exactly WILL Americans obtain their information about a particular candidate's religious beliefs? Oh yeah, from the Internet most likely. After the disasters that George W. has wrought on this country I want to know everything about a potential candidate's religion. As Stephen Pizzo has stated in this excellent piece, the majority of Americans have had enough of Dubya's talking to a "higher authority." America is about diversity remember? Included in that diversity is the right to believe in a religion or none at all. Those "principles that our founding fathers established" included a gigantic one: The separation of church and state. That is a FACT of American democracy although there are those who want to ignore it and turn this country into a theocracy. P.S. Ponder this: It is also possible that when we die, NOTHING will happen. - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:05:16 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1330 It amazes me what some people think is important. Does it really matter what kind of underwear Romney wears? No. I totally agree that our president's faith matters and it always will. But someone wanting to know about a religion should really research it correctly. If you want to know about a Ford, you would not go ask a Toyota dealer. Find out what the religion really believes and its history. Research the meaning behind the ordinances that seem "strange" to you. Parading the sacred garment, for example, as if it were not sacred to someone, is totally unnecessary and demeaning. Though it may not be sacred to you, it most definitely is to those that practice the religion. I do not know if you value anything as sacred, but if you do, would you like it picked apart by someone that does not believe in, or understand it, and then have it totally misrepresented and displayed to "prove" to everyone that sees it, that you are "weird" or "strange" for holding it sacred? I caution you that no matter what religion a person may be, if any at all, when we all die, one certain thing happens to all of us. This world will never agree on what it is that will happen, but be assured that something will happen. Ponder this: Let's say that you spent your life believing a certain way, when you die and find out you were: A. Right. Then you will be fine with whatever happens in respect to what you believed. B. Wrong. Then you will still be held accountable for things you did wrong, no matter if you believed you would be accountable or not. For example, if you believe in reincarnation, when you die, if you come back as someone or something else according to how you lived your previous life, then you were right and life continues and is good. If you were wrong, oops, there was a whole list of other things you should have been working for. If you believe there is no heaven or hell, when you die, if you find out there are no such places, then good, nothing to worry about. If you find out there are such places, oops, you have to go to one of them regardless of what you previously believed. The point I am trying to make is, no matter what you believe, be respectful to the many, many other religions that are out there. These people really, really believe in their faith, so to attack it or display parts of it in any manner that they would not, is disrespectful, and if that particular religion ends up being the correct one, you will be held accountable for making light of it, or insulting it. So like I said, if you want to really know what Romney, or McCain believes, research it, don't attack it. Once you've researched it thoroughly and correctly (I do not mean dig up dirt and opinions on the internet), and if you do not agree with the faith and feel the candidate would not make correct choices because of his/her beliefs, then don't vote for them. Simple as that. Be an American if you so wish to be. Being an American means accepting your neighbors into this amazing, wonderful melting pot that gives this country its identity, without unnecessary judgements and ridicule. If you would rather attack others for their beliefs, then get out. . . America does not need citizens like this. Keep this country a free land based on the principles that our founding fathers established it under: that Americans will be free to worship however they choose. Vote using facts, not opinions. - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:52:08 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1327 Thank you for your article. As a Scientologist for nearly 40 years (an all-denominational applied religious philosophy), you bring to light -- and very well express -- a vital issue. When John F Kennedy (a Roman Catholic) ran for president, he clearly stated that the Vatican would have no part in his decisions. No ambiguity. When JFK was asked on a TV show (1960's) if America should send people into Russia to promote democracy, he said that the way a people obtain freedom is through their own desires expressed as actions. What deeply concerns me is when I hear, "America is a Christian nation." At once, it marginalizes people of other faiths. Nothing could be more damaging to this nation that the concept of "we're all equal, but some are more equal than others." The same concept, incidentally, occurs when this nation stopped being composed of Americans, and starte be comprised of hyphenated Americans (Black Americans, Hispanic Americans, Chinese Americans). One's heritage is important, but the unifying force that built this nation is that it was a "melting pot" into which the best of all was added to create the distinctly unique quality of being an American. George W Bush and his team of "good Christians" has done the United States incalculable damage. - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:06:59 +0100 http://atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/1008-no-more-free-passes-for-faith-based-campaigners.html#comment-1324 The title of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Dropped a t and Jesus Christ. Figure anyone can be a cult. May as well vote for him. After all, we want to have proportionate representation. If it is time for a woman to be president because she is a woman or a man to be president because he is black, it is now time for a left-handed, one-eyed transexual to be elected because, by gum, they are waaay under-represented. Or, here is a radical thought, why not vote the best person in and not worry about sex, religion, race, creed or color. Sort of like the equal rights laws mandate. Sheep say "bahhhh" - a guest Wed, 21 Feb 2007 08:16:01 +0100